>> i was-- . >> rose: in cardiff. >> in cardiff, in south wales, which is a city of-- it's the largest city in wales but it's about 200,000 people on the welsh coast about oh, 40 miles away from where dylan thomas and richard burton were born and about 15 miles from where that other famous we was born. >> rose: and what got you to oxford? >> how did you get to oxford? >> my, i went to a regular high school in britain. and there were teachers who were encouraging to try their best. d been educated at oxford on a scholarship. so it, while it seemed unattainable for oxford or cambridge seemed unattainable for most of my contemporaries when i was at high school, it seems within reach at least fe. so i gave it a shot. and wound up there in the early 1970s. but i enjoyed the extra mural life there and got involved with the university magazine. >> rose: yes. >> and enjoyed that a lot. and -- >> liked to write? >> and also was people were very kind, politicians in particular were very kind and they, it was easy to get an interview with fairly illustrious people. so with the university magazine